dn1982

I don't think they'll be one just yet. Lamberts position isn't solid we could easily lose our next 2 then we hit a Xmas period where games come thick and fast so anything is possible. If we are in a decent enough position by mid jan he will be safe and will need one.

"The point remains he had the confidence to start an 18yo"  :  That point is valid if you think starting a 18 year old is more important than getting something out of the game. High flying Southampton lost to Burnley and the kid ended up in tears on the bench. In what way is that a success.

 

"Grealish created more off the bench against Leicester than Gabby and NZogbia put together" : No he didn't. Gabby was instrumental in both goals. Gabby can be ineffectual at times but he certainly wasn't in the Leicester game.

 

"We have had plenty of chances to start him or to try something different yet he keeps picking the same players and hoping for a different result" : There have only been three games this season when Lambert has had the opportunity to start with the same eleven for consecutive games. 'He keeps picking the same players' is just plain wrong although I'm sure he'd like to be able to have a settled first team.

 

"Okore got his chance because there was no one left and has took it with both hands will it take another injury crisis this time in attack to use Grealish?" : Okore had to wait for his chance, whats wrong with that? None of Vlarr, Senderos, or Baker had deserved to lose their place through performance. Clarke has also played well since getting his chance. Yes Okore has taken his chance with both hands, maybe because he had to fight to get it.

You're better at taking the quotes but I'll address them in order.

the 18 yo was in tears on the bench as his full debut was cut short by injury that's something that can't be planned for. I think Grealish will give more to the team than the current incumbents.

Grealish did create more of the bench look at the stats. I think he was 2nd behind Cleverley but again you've read it one way to try to prove a point. Instrumental? Did he actually create the goals? One was a free kick the other he ran as fast as he could and past to Benteke who picked out a very good pass.

By the same players I mean Gabby NZogbia and Weimann and I'd say that's pretty obvious as I was talking about getting creativty in the team.

Okore wasn't even making match day squads. I understand he has to wait for his turn but PL never should any inclination to use him until it was the last resort. We have all seen Baker and Clark and know thier limations where as Okore could be something special. If he never got a chance I'd say he'd be angling for a move as the reason he joined was to play when bigger clubs were sniffing about.

Him having the confidence to start an 18yo isn't anything admirable when by the looks of things, the player's confidence was absolutely shattered. These things can take years to get over and some professionals never manage to. Grealish has massive potential but he needs to be handled with kid gloves and not drowned in the deep end.

Err, no. Hesketh was upset because his first league start was cut short by injury. That has no direct relevence to the lad's confidence.

 

You don't see how somebody getting fouled badly and injured on their debut could affect their confidence? Really?

How can you plan for an injury? I doubt it'd affect confidence as it's nothing to do with him. Would a 20yo or 30yo making a debut lose confidence? Injuries are part an parcel. Why is it we have to treat our youth with kid gloves when others get blooded? He's had a full season playing against clobbers it's not as if he's used to playing boys and then coming up against men. He may not be ready but how do you know if you don't give him a try from the start? It's not as if there's better in front of him.

The point remains he had the confidence to start an 18yo. We are crying out for creativity. Grealish created more off the bench against Leicester than Gabby and NZogbia put together. We have had plenty of chances to start him or to try something different yet he keeps picking the same players and hoping for a different result. Okore got his chance because there was no one left and has took it with both hands will it take another injury crisis this time in attack to use Grealish?

 Of course not, Lambert is just waiting for Delph to leave on a free, Westwood, N'Zogbia, Gabby to retire and Cleverlys loan to end and then he can play Grealish with Sanchez. Have you learnt nothing about Lambert the past 3 years.

Thanks for the input!!!!

Certainly, we've changed our style of play. Unfortunately, we don't have midfielders creative enough to make use of possession, nor to we have attackers good enough to supply Benteke.

 

A change in the right direction, but one that probably should have happened over summer when there was time to get the right players in.

 

Who do you think signed these players? He's got a creative player in Grealish on the bench who he won't play and instead goes with Weimann.

 

Sorry but he's been here ages. If we aren't creating anything then that's the managers fault.

Lamberts under the illusion we have creative players but the stats are awful. Give Benteke service and he'll score. Koeman gave an 18 yo his full,debut away to Burnley where as Lambert is unwilling to give Grealish a start. He brings Robinson back from loan where he was doing really well and never used him and he'll now end up playing u21 football again. If we was creating loads I'd understand but we aren't. If you don't pick an attacker because of his defensive abilities something's wrong!

 

The same one that was tackled horrifically, got injured, and was in tears on the bench?

They also lost the game. Lambert got slated for only drawing with Burnley yet Koeman is praised even though they lost, with a stronger squad.

The point remains he had the confidence to start an 18yo. We are crying out for creativity. Grealish created more off the bench against Leicester than Gabby and NZogbia put together. We have had plenty of chances to start him or to try something different yet he keeps picking the same players and hoping for a different result. Okore got his chance because there was no one left and has took it with both hands will it take another injury crisis this time in attack to use Grealish?

Michu might be available on loan. He's at Napoli but been injured and they might let him go.

Certainly, we've changed our style of play. Unfortunately, we don't have midfielders creative enough to make use of possession, nor to we have attackers good enough to supply Benteke.

 

A change in the right direction, but one that probably should have happened over summer when there was time to get the right players in.

 

Who do you think signed these players? He's got a creative player in Grealish on the bench who he won't play and instead goes with Weimann.

 

Sorry but he's been here ages. If we aren't creating anything then that's the managers fault.

Lamberts under the illusion we have creative players but the stats are awful. Give Benteke service and he'll score. Koeman gave an 18 yo his full,debut away to Burnley where as Lambert is unwilling to give Grealish a start. He brings Robinson back from loan where he was doing really well and never used him and he'll now end up playing u21 football again. If we was creating loads I'd understand but we aren't. If you don't pick an attacker because of his defensive abilities something's wrong!

He needs competition for his place. His distribution has got worse and also his game management. There's times when we are leading when he time wastes when we could be launching quick counterattacks.

If Delph doesn't want to sign I'd sell him and I think Fletcher would be an ideal replacement. At 30 I can't see that many top clubs after him so he'd be looking at mid to lower PL that would IMO be us amongst others. I'd actually prefer him to Cleverley.

As for the biggest signing that got away it's got to be looking at Sheringham and ending up with the crap cockney Irish italian fella who says burmenham! It cost us the league!

I don't understand this lets have some solidity until the summer stuff. It's Lamberts 3rd year he's had enough time to get the sqaud his it's now time to progress. In the summer we will likely lose Delph Vlaar and Benteke what do you then say next season? That's we are in transition? Football changes very quickly that's why 5'year plans are stupid. You have to progress at every opportunity. If we develop a style of play that's good to watch and brings results we'll have a lot better chance of getting our star players to stay and attracting others. Who wants to play in a boring struggling side that doesn't improve??

I don't even need a 90 minute performance - they are rare for any club - but I agree our football has been poor in the extreme....I'm with you the only genuinely enjoyable one was at the weekend, Burnley was OK....but Burnley ffs !....and we have had a few,very few other good moments.

Leicester showed what we could do with the right intent. It doesn't have to be tikki takka but it was so much better than the negative, limited, stuff that went before.

I don't buy that we only could do that against Leicester, the players are good enough to play football against all but the top 5\6 when the ten man defence is fine.

Someone said there is no good football only winning football.....I, and many I know, disagree. There is such a thing as playing in a positive, watchable, manner, yes, defending well, but having an aggressive and positive mindset to get people forward and use the ball.

In fact, just how we played against Leicester. We will lose a fair few to the 14 we really count, but we will win a fair few too and be worth watching.

I like a lot of others will be waiting to see what happens this weekend. Play like we did against Leicester and I think a lot will support him whatever the result....revert to what is, at the moment, 'type' and a lot won't support him even if we win.

Spot on and I think the dwindling crowds suggest we are in the majority on this. We currently lose a few against the other 14 and a lot against the remainder so why not just have a go all the time? Play an attacking passing style in all games and you'll get better at it. As you say it doesn't have to be Barca just a Big Rons Villa would do!! I mentioned Burnley as in the 1st half we played some good stuff yet we went back into our shell but I'll put that down to confidence. Confidence should be sky high now so no excuses.

One thing stats don't show is how crap our football has been. To say that it hasn't is kidology against Burnley and Leicester we played better yet got battered by Palace so we are a long way from turning a corner. Our squad IMO is a decent mid table one which is where I think we'll finish but if that's playing negative score and defend football he won't win anybody over. If he tries to play more football as he has done of late I think we've a few additions we'll be in for a relatively good season. When was the last time we won by 2 goals? When was the last time we wasn't hanging on at the end? When was the last time you've came away from a Villa game impressed by a 90 min performance ?

Sell him if he doesn't want to resign. Okore has shown enough to warrant a long run and with Senderos coming back soon we'll have plenty of cover. Put all in coming money towards some creativity.

My point being that there's players out there in our price range who would improve us. We seem to only hear about the ones who got away that are too expensive surely if you have £5m to spend you don't look at a £10m player!! Lambert says we need attacking players yet until Cole he's not brought one in. in Jan this this is the only position he should be looking at. I wouldn't make Cleverley permanent if that's all the money we have we need to be more astute in our transfers

 

This isn't football manager though. Lambert probably identifies players through different means, whether it be scouting or agent offers etc. I'm pretty sure there isn't a database out there with all the players in the world and their clubs valuation of them readily available for him to peruse through.

You're right it's not football manager but what's that got to do with not knowing rough valuations and targeting within your means? In this day and age it's quite easy to find out rough valuations or you could just ask the club involved then move on to targets in your range. Saying we looked at this player but couldn't afford him to me is silly. I'd hope Lambert has looked at hundreds of players and some of those would be out of reach how about getting one in who isn't.

My point being that there's players out there in our price range who would improve us. We seem to only hear about the ones who got away that are too expensive surely if you have £5m to spend you don't look at a £10m player!! Lambert says we need attacking players yet until Cole he's not brought one in. in Jan this this is the only position he should be looking at. I wouldn't make Cleverley permanent if that's all the money we have we need to be more astute in our transfers

Like him or not, Lerner and Lambert have had a plan and are executing that plan. We're now in a stable financial position, the wage bill is under control and we have a decent squad. Yes, there have been some **** ups along the way (contract situations with Delph/Vlaar etc..) but we are slowly and surely rebuilding from the ground up. If we can finish mid-table this year, say 10th-12th (which we are capable of) then it's an improvement and Lambert would have done his job.

I think we are supposed to be making £17m in the next accounts but that profit will be wiped out because of the way the contracts have been handled. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot. Short term thinking is hurting the club and that's Lerners fault hopefully Tom Fox has the nous to realise a club in our position can't afford to have £20m+ of talent leaving for free. They both should have been sold last summer if they didn't sign new deals.

I agree we don't need another forward, what we need is a younger version of Cole and a really good wide man. That would cost in the region if £15m-£20m for the calibre of players we need plus the associated wages. Ain't going to happen.

We've needed an attacking midfielder for years. Should have bought one instead of Kozak imo. If Lambert has any money to spend in January (or the Summer) it should all go on 1 younger Joe Cole.

I understand why some think that, personally I don't agree but that's been done to death and can't be changed.

I would just like to see a little more backing for the manager this window than he has received the last two January windows.

There's plenty of players who would improve us that could be bought for a lot less than that. The problem is we don't seem to be able to identify them where as other clubs do. Mirallas Naismith Bolaise were all bought in our price range and there's loads more. Hopefully Lambert realises its creativity we need and even if we just get one in it'd make a hell of a difference to us whether it be loan or permanent. If it is a loan I'd hope it's with a view to a permanent move as we need to build properly.

Allardyce was told that just getting results through crap football wasnt good enough so he had to implement an attacking style

 

Source?

 

My bet is that the turnaround has a lot more to do with him having been told "here's some real money, go and spend it".

Source? It's common knowledge Google it if you don't believe it he also brought in Sherrigham as a coach to help on the attacking side and as for real money hed previously bought Jarvis Carroll and Downing for a lot of money and still played his usual crap football. Last year they was the worst team I saw at VP and that was a major reason the fans wanted him out. Yet he's turned it around playing better football.

I think you'll struggle we've sold out virtually every away game this year and not many have made general sale.

Ings looks a very good player from the bits I've seen. What we are crying out for is creativity and some one who can cross the ball. Benteke makes crap balls into good ones just imagine him with a good supply line? Yesterday I think only Grealish gave him a decent cross which he should have scored from. I'd take Ashley Young back straight away he's delivery is miles ahead of what we have at the minute even if it can be hit and miss.

I wonder how West Ham fans feel about Allardyce now.

 

Last season he was the sole reason for all their troubles. Now they're third.

 

The worst anyone could possibly say about Paul Lambert is that he's a mediocre manager whose tactics produce unentertaining football. But even then you have to acknowledge that he has a record of keeping us in the league.

 

Do we REALLY want to take our chances with the next poor fool prepared to take the job with no funding? When we're eleventh??? I sure as **** don't.

Allardyce was told that just getting results through crap football wasnt good enough so he had to implement an attacking style then lo and behold they're results have been better!! This is the problem with Lambert for most fans is he is too negative and the footballs crap if he can get us attacking more he'll win more support. He's had a long time to get more creativity in the side and still hasn't addressed it.

Rene Meulensteen is available. I think we need a very good coach as assistant. Maybe Fergie can have a word I think he owes us one after his last recommendation!!

Is victory tomorrow the be all and end all? As in no matter how we play or try to as long as we win Lambert is doing great? For me I've always thought we will stay up my biggest bone of contention is the tripe that gets served up. Now after 2 1/2 years I think we need more than just scraping results Lambert needs to have his team playing in his style and unfortunately I think the only style he knows is counter attacking. I hope I'm wrong I'd love nothing more than to see us dominate games and win with a bit of flair. They'll be games to sit deep but they should be the exception rather than the rule. Lambert needs us to win tomorrow but now I think he needs more than that to have a chance of turning fans around it'll be interesting to see the reaction of the players when we take the lead and whether they'll return to type and sit deep.

Any team with Beneke in wouldn't get relegated as IMO he is that good a player. The problem though lies when he isn't fit who will nick the goal for us to hang on to? Who will be our outlet to hold the ball or make defences sit deeper as they are worried about him? You can throw all the stats you like about win/loss like for like etc but for me I don't care about them what I do care about is enjoying watching us play. On this front Lambert is letting us down massively. He has turned into a negative manager. Against Burnley we had a go then either through confidence or managerial instruction we got deeper and deeper. Gabby who should be our outlet was deeper than grealish on countless occasions. Now that's got to be Lamberts idea as Gabby seems to drop at the first opportunity. We then robbed Palace who would have put past us if they had Benteke. I fully supported Lambert as I thought he'd have a go every game but it seems as soon as we score he craps himself and tries to hang on no matter how long is left. I fully expect us to score first on Sunday and then we will see whether Lambert has any real attacking intent as Leicester are there to be spanked if he doesn't and sits back regardless of the result he should go as the job IMO is too big for him and he's lost his mojo.

Palace was Lambert's perfect game. We all know we can sit deep and counter teams and we will have a modicum of success doing it but surely we deserve more? Sunday at home against a struggling Leicster team will be a lot harder for him as he has to take the game to them which is something we've seen fleetingly this season and in Lamberts tenure. I have zero confidence in Lambert being able to turn us into anything other than what we are now. A low possession counter attacking team. Hopefully if he is being backed by Lerner he can bring in a number 2 who get us passing and moving a lot better than we have been. I hope I'm proved wrong but after 2 1/4 seasons I've seen nothing that thinks he can or wants to get a better playing style. We are crying out for creativity. If he doesn't rectify that in January it will show he is clueless as it's what we've been after since he arrived. If we had Palaces wide men we would be flying!