dn1982

So Fox and Almstadt have gone. Changes are afoot isn't it about time we united and supported OUR club? We can't do anything about Lerner unless someone on here has £100m+ but one thing is for sure any potential owners will prefer to see a full Villa Park supporting a club that's in the crap than a half empty stadium with bed sheets saying Lerner Out. We need momentum and a united fan base going into next season to have any sort of chance of coming back up and if we don't we really will be in a lot of trouble!! 

Gardner was loaned out for the season as he needed game time unfortunately once he got his fitness up and was performing we couldn't recall him but hopefully his performances aren't going unnoticed. His form does still seem up and down but that goes for Forest aswell. I just hope he stays fit in a Villa shirt as he seems to be so unlucky in our colours it's unreal. 

18 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

 

Money well spent.

 

Cracking appointment! As far as I can see he knackered any deals we had lined up in Jan which basically put the nail in the coffin he built last summer!! 

1 hour ago, KHV said:

No Stevo, I genuinely do not think Garde has any redeemable qualities at all other than seeming like a nice bloke. I do not want him here, I do not trust him or his back room staff to get any performance from this team or any new potential team in the summer. I know you disagree with this and that's fine but for me he is not the man for this job or the man for next season in the championship. I don't rate him at all. That's how I feel about him and I think the troubles at the club have masked the fact that he really isn't very good.

Do you trust the players? Do you trust the next manager to realise that there's a lot of crap unmotivated players that need getting shot of before we can rebuild? You can saying people only want Garde because he seems a nice bloke and that's a load of crap. A nice bloke doesn't out his players for not having the right attitude and showing enough in training. He is fighting a relegation battle whilst trying to get a bunch of prima donnas to do the basics like show desire!!! There's a group of senior players that should be setting an example yet seem to be the ones always moaning!! Take Gabby for instance Houllier wanted rid years ago yet he keeps getting given chance after chance because we change managers we need to do something different and for me that's stick with Garde let him get rid of the crap and back him to get players in of the right attitude. You say he's one of the worst managers we've ever had but up until the Liverpool game we looked like we'd get back into the fight and in that one game it showed what's wrong with these players. No fight No desire No leaders No confidence. You can't coach any of those it has to come from the players! 

2 hours ago, Mantis said:

Regardless of what backing the board give I think it's critical that there's a manager in place who wants to shake things up and get the parasites out of the club.

I totally agree and I think Garde has tried to do that but is hamstrung as he hasn't any other options so has to play the same ones over and over. That's why I said if they weren't going to back him they should've got some one in to get the best out of the crap we've got instead of trying to build and upsetting them. The only reason I want Garde to stay is I think he knows who he has to get rid of. I don't want a new manager coming in and giving the crap another chance. Let's get them out ASAP and get some solid foundations built.

We have some really crap players. No manager in this world would be able to get Gestede to be a complete CF. We have a squad that's just randomly picked players without any idea how to build a team or a pattern of play. None of these are Garde's fault as its what he inherited and he was denied the opportunity to make his mark on it in January. I don't know if he is the right manager for us but any manager would've struggled with this lot. We got on a decent run in January but then something happened and since Liverpool its been awful. If the board wasn't going to back him in January they should've got a manager who wouldn't upset the prima donna players and just tried to grind out results but once they picked Garde who I think given time will get it right they should've backed him to turn it around. 

57 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Anyone remember being at that Liverpool game in the Houllier season? Last game of the season, and we actually beat them 1-0.

But the overriding memory was basically the whole crowd, for the last 15-20 minutes, not giving one flying **** about what was going on on the pitch. Everyone was chanting and celebrating about Blues going down.

I know that's a bit small time, but it was hilarious at the time.

 

That's what I have in my head for the Chelsea game. Bedlam in the stands, but none of it to do with what is happening on the pitch (assuming we are inevitably losing by at least 2 clear goals). I think the ideas the OTD crew are mooting here will go a long way to creating that sort of atmosphere. Nothing nasty as such, just unified chanting and partying, with nobody paying much attention to the football.

I think this would be the best policy. Forget the game. Make the day like an away game constant noise throughout with all anti Lerner songs and others showing our support for our club. All those fans who said they'd go the game to walk out how about going and making a racket? We will be on live TV so it'll be an ideal game to show how good we are and how badly run our club is. 

On 8 March 2016 at 23:57, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Have you, like, read OTDO74's mission statement? 

Also, did you read the article? The protests in 1968 bought about change that lead to a new owner. Sitting on your hands and hoping Steven Hollis sorts it all out for you will achieve **** all except more misery for you bud.

It seems sitting on my hands and hoping Hollis sorts things out behind the scenes wasn't that far off? The 2 appointments are very encouraging. Hopefully he'll keep making correct decisions and get us in some sort if shale to rebuild in the summer. 

5 minutes ago, BOF said:

Realistically w.r.t. Fox, he would probably see that as a demotion and be unwilling to accommodate, so in reality we would probably have to look for a new commercial officer with him leaving his post.

He's on £1.25m he will do what ever we say!!! Really though he can still be CEO but he now has the people in place so he can do what he's good at growing the club. Little can be the Football link Bernstein showing them the political side if football ie getting work permits through and Hollis over seeing everything. I'd like Fox to stay as I think he'd be good long term but if he goes I'm far more confident we will get the right people in after these latest appointments!! 

You're only allowed a 25 man squad so if you have an average wage of £40k that's about £52m on 1st team wages. How can we then spend 50% roughly again on the rest? Our waste is unbelievable! I think they set 60% as roughly the wage to turnover ratio so ours would be about 65m. Which wouldn't be too bad. It'll be interesting to see how these numbers get explained away. Hopefully a decent journalist will try to get the right people to answer the questions but knowing the crap ones that look after Villa they'll be asking Garde tomorrow!!!! 

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

The KPIs as identified by the directors concern league position, cup runs, attendance and turnover. Bottom of the league, out of the cups early on, plummeting attendance and now a massive loss. No way can anybody associated with the last 18 months remain in their jobs. I expect Fox's sacking imminently.

Do we sack everybody? The KPI's are pretty standard for a football club. The numbers are awful but it was Faulkner that's let the wage bill go up about 25% from £60 to £74m! That's awful. Especially considering the players involved. Fox has said all along that we have been badly run off the pitch granted he has overseen us having a worst season in decades but if he is sorting out the financial mess off the pitch I think sacking him is futile. Only Hollis will be the only one who knows if this is the case so I think if Fox stays that'll be the reason. 

19 minutes ago, mwj said:

I was agreeing with you in general, just pointing out that gate receipts are down the list when it comes to revenue generation.

That's why having an increased commercial department and hardly anything to show for an FA Cup run is astonishing. 

3 hours ago, Jareth said:

P45s on their way then.

 

I think that's the fans KPI's seeing as the way we've been run by the directors goes against this completely. 

58 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Bad signs.

As has been said, you can't raise wages by 20% and then find yourself 9 points from safety with 10 games to play, especially when it comes to losing all of that lovely TV money this coming summer.

Decisions have been absolutely abhorrent from all the top dogs at the top.  Looks like we won't be keeping any of the half decent players we have currently have because they'll be flogged to limit our inevitably huge losses again next year.

Right, so Lerner can expect about £30m for the club now, the price is only going one way Lerner, take what you can and run!

The wage rise is for last year not this year that's a big worry for me!!! 

2 hours ago, mwj said:

I'm not quite sure what you expect from an FA Cup run? We're not Salford City. Most of the money comes from sponsorship and TV deals these days as you can see in the Turnover section.

The wages are the concerning one. I know Delph signed a new contract last year but who else? Gabby?

Why do you take the small part of a post and make it the focal point? You make out I never even brought up the wage increase. We never signed anybody of any value in the preceding summer. Most signings were on low wages probably appearance based. Delph signed a new contract in January he was being paid by us before then and on a reported 60k a week so I doubt his increase or for that matter Gabbys would have much affect on the wage bill. As for the FA Cup the prize money is not that much a couple of million but we did actually play games to get there that generated gate receipts so the FA Cup run was probably worth 4-5m as a low estimate. We never seem to grow our revenue so what is going on? We've been stuck circa 110m for years!!! 

Truly staggering numbers if I've understood them!! Wages going up £14m or so BEFORE all the signings this summer?? Fox on £1.2m? Can that be right? More commercial staff but hardly any increase in revenue? I think heads will start to roll now. These figures are a joke. How can we be losing £27m when we get to an FA Cup Final and hardly buy any players?? I hope I've read some of this wrong or we are well and truly f*****. I await the accounts amongst us to put it in plain speak for us!!! 

50 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Individually I have no doubt that the majority of this squad are capable of performing in the Championship.

Collectively, they are a bunch of weak minded, cowardly losers.For that reason alone this squad needs to be ripped to shreds, new blood needs to be brought in, new characters, players with bollocks, players that want to achieve something more than a five year contract. Players that will driag performances out of each other, that will stand up and be counted, that will shout, encourage and cajole their teammates, players that don't just flap their arms and shrug their shoulders.

We need a group that are proud to play for this club, that have the courage and conviction to say "No!!! We will not go quietly into that dark night!!! We will fight for this institution, we will fight for this shirt. We will battle for what we believe in... this game and these fans...because at the end of the day, whilst the monkeys upstairs continue to **** up, we will always be accountable to the supporters and ourselves. So we will fight for every 3 points, we will do everything in our power and ability to get this club back to where it belongs...and then, just then, maybe we can say we achieved something worth remembering!!!!!!!!"

 

So year, if we could get at least half a dozen out, that would be smashing.

Hopefully we will get rid of the likes of Guzan Richards Lescott Gabby Hutton and a few others and replace them with fighters. If we had some true leaders allied to the younger players we'd be in a decent place but we tried getting some leaders last summer and they've turned out to be a bunch of clearings in the woods!!! That's the problem these days when players are financially secure they lose the desire when the going gets tough. 

19 hours ago, Sam3773 said:

I don't think we need a new XI. I actually think we have some good players. Take Gana or Ayew and put them into a better squad and I'm sure they'll look great. I'd really like to keep:

Cissokho - He's been great since coming back.

Amavi - For once we have a bit of decent depth here. Would be good to see him back, challenging Aly.

Okore - I like him. Maybe because I have fond memories of the Okore/Clark partnership last season.

Clark - He makes mistakes, but he's physical. Could do with him down there to get the usual yellows.

Bacuna - I think he'll be a good asset in the Championship.

Ayew - If we can keep him alone I'll be happy. Passionate and a quality player.

Gestede - Proven at Championship level. I think he'll shine for us next year.

Adama - He'll tear things up and won't be easily bullied.

Gana - Been one of our best players this season

Veretout - Had some good games.

I think that's about it. Offload the rest and replace with quality. If it's a choice between keeping Guzan as backup or Bunn as backup, I'd opt for Bunn as I suspect his wages are lower and get a new first choice in. Toying with adding Hutton to the list as I like how he gets forward. Decided he was just a little too replaceable and probably on high wages.

You can also add Gardner, Steer , Baker, Robinson into that as they're all doing a decent job in the Championship at the minute. You've also missed out Grealish and Gil. If we can keep the players we want to we won't need that many additions but that's a pretty big IF. Is there a squad limit in the Championship? What are the loan rules? We will definitely need at least 1 striker hopefully 2. A new GK and a new RB as a minimum but we've been saying that for months!! 

11 hours ago, MikeMcKenna said:

"...which we've been trying to get for years..." Show me where? Whenever was there a sustained campaign against those that run the club or their strategy since RL arrived?

Like 1968 we have started to voice our anger and call for change. I know personally back then that some also had a half empty attitude to any form of protest constantly saying 'nothing will change' but change DID happen because of protest. Doing nothing begets nothing. 

Like 1968 we have no idea whether OTDO74 will work but like 1968 we are doing something. 

When I put we I meant us as a club and Lerner to be specific!! We or shall I keep it simple Aston Villa FC have been for sale for a few years. I think Everton have been for sale for a decade or so and have only just got an investor. Comparing now to 68 is silly as then it forced the owners to sell whereas ours has been trying to sell. 

11 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Have you, like, read OTDO74's mission statement? 

Also, did you read the article? The protests in 1968 bought about change that lead to a new owner. Sitting on your hands and hoping Steven Hollis sorts it all out for you will achieve **** all except more misery for you bud.

The protests in 1968 brought change because it made the owner sell the big difference being our owner has been trying to sell for years and can't get someone to buy us. Now unless you're telling him to walk away and lose £100m+ the only way something will change in the short term is for a shake up by Hollis behind the scenes. 

40 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said:

Who said protests, don't work? Yes times have changed but protests still create pressure and make the news. The situation now is almost indentical to 1968. If OTDO74 isn't making waves it wouldn't still be making news. Article tonight in BM....

 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-fans-protest-brought-11010565

 

A section of Aston Villa fans have reached such a breaking point with their club's demise that they have launched protests at Villa Park.

The 'Out the Door on '74' movement prompted supporters to leave their seats early in Villa's Premier League defeat to Everton last week and similar action is planned for Sunday's Villa Park home match against Tottenham and the following home fixture against Chelsea.

Villa are not renowned for having the most militant fanbase in football, but they do have some history of rallying fans to bring about positive change.

John Russell can vividly remember helping to organise the first ever fans’ protest meeting at Aston Villa in 1968, which is believed to have been the first in the English game. With modern-day technology, football followers can come together to air their grievances in all manner of fanzines, internet forums and social media sites.

But in the late 1960s, there was no such platform for a diminishing fanbase to vent its frustration about the demise of its beloved club – until Russell and his friend Brian Evans became so disillusioned with Villa’s board that they took the unprecedented step of rallying fellow fed-up fans into action.

A woeful defeat to Preston on November 9 1968, which left the claret and blues marooned at the foot of the old Second Division table, was the catalyst, recalls Russell.

“We provisionally booked Birmingham Town Hall, which was going to cost us £200, then contacted the Birmingham Mail’s Bob Blackburn, who was the Villa reporter,” he explains.

“He came back and said ‘why don’t you hire Digbeth Civic Hall instead? It will only cost you half as much, it only holds half as many and if the Villa supporters wreck it, no-one will be too bothered. If they wreck the town hall, no-one will be too pleased’.”

Russell and Evans had no idea how successful the meeting would be, even when around 1,000 disgruntled Villans packed into the Digbeth venue on 21 November 1968. The size of the turnout merely prompted pangs of fear for the pioneering organisers who were unsure how to address the crowd or what to say. They needn’t have worried.

“In the end, it was solved by the directors of the Villa themselves, who sent the longest telegram in history,” remembers Russell.

“I wish I’d still got it. It really was three or four feet long. We gathered together in a back room with the crowd getting really restless because the platform had cleared and they wondered what the hell was happening.

“It was the most ambiguous telegram and we had no idea what it meant, but Brian Evans, who chaired the meeting, said ‘I don’t care what it says, just go out and say it says Aston Villa is up for sale’. So we did.”

Russell paints a picture of a board of directors years behind the times, with the interests of the club at heart but without the necessary nous to lead Villa into the future. (MMcK: Not much has changed 58 years on)

He admits that the inaugural public meeting in Villa’s history did not suddenly result in an overnight change with the old power-brokers instantly selling up . But the Villa fanatic, who made his first visit to Villa Park as a five-year-old for a reserve game in December 1944, believes it was a watershed moment.

“The club was going absolutely nowhere,” says Russell. “You can get the general idea how depressing things were.

“We just felt that the men in charge had lost the plot. We didn’t feel they had much idea about how to run a football club. 

"The sheer number of people at our meeting and our collective frustration was the kick up the backside that they needed.

 

“They took it as a signal that perhaps they weren’t up to it, which they weren’t.”

After tentative enquiries but no firm offers from several half-interested parties, the board traded their shares to one Herbert Douglas Ellis, then a director at Birmingham City, for a reported £55,000 in December 1968.

Regardless of the opinion-splitting supremo that Ellis would go on to become, his takeover just over 40 years ago had moved Villa forward, despite a brief step back via the Third Division.

 

And the biggest change came from getting a new owner which we've been trying to get for years and sadly until that happens we will struggle. You can walk out as much as you like but the facts remain we need a new owner which won't be coming anytime soon so all we can hope for is Hollis to sort us out behind the scenes. We have been down before we will be back. 

2 hours ago, mwj said:

Disagree. We have a serious problem with attitude in the squad at the moment, we shouldn't be buying any old player just because they are an improvement on the pitch.

Out of interest at what age do you think we should draw the line? 29 is too old for you? 27? Like Micah Richards? 24? Like Bacuna? Or is it better too judge each player on there own merits. I agree with the squad attitude but it's not an age issue its a personality one! 

5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

It just feels like we go round and round pinpointing all the individual problems in the club but no-one seems able to identify what the over-arching issue is.

We have numerous threads where we (rightly) slate the Owner, Manager, staff, players, transfer policy, investment, fans etc, but these are all individual components of a wider issue. I, like the rest of us, do not know what this issue is either but when mates/fans of other clubs ask me what's wrong at the club I list all of the aforementioned, which pretty much makes up every facet of the club.

The only element that seems to be in good working order are the facilities and physical infrastructure.

We even have an absolute tosser as club commentator or whatever the hell you call Jack Woodward, I literally can't find anything positive about the club, with all due respect to everyone on here and the wider Villa community even the fans are shit (and yes, I include myself in that).

At least when clubs like Newcastle have gone down they've been able to live off the glory of their 'amazing fan base'.........what do we have? Seriously, what do we have? Nothing.

I am proud to support Aston Villa Football Club and will support them until I or they die but I am not proud to support this current version of Aston Villa Football Club, in fact, it's downright embarrassing.

It needs a complete transplant of personnel. I would look to systematically remove/replace every single club staff member (players, coaches, finance, HR, admin etc) over the next 24-48 hours and start entirely afresh, I can't see it changing unless such drastic actions are taken.

Newcastle live off the glory of their amazing fan base??? Have you not seen the reaction to our away fans every game? Things are bad but our support is as good as any and better than most. I guarantee if we sort ourselves out in the summer and are winning games again the home support will match the away support. My only fear of relegation is not coming straight back up but in a perverse way it may be exactly what we need. We have become complacent and stale. Our home form has been awful for years imagine the belief we could get from a title winning season with 12-15 home wins and 40000 crowds? To get there though we need to strip this squad of all the players without the right attitude. We all know who they are. Do this and get rid of Amlmstadt and Reilly to appease the fans get in some Villa related people. Spend some money on players with quality and spirit and by preseason we will all be thinking positive again. It sounds easy and if we had the right people in charge it would be but therein lies the problem. Over to you Hollis!!! 

35 minutes ago, mwj said:

Huddlestone, yes good just what we need, another "experienced" player on a big contract with a questionable attitude and inconsistent performance

35 minutes ago, mwj said:

Huddlestone, yes good just what we need, another "experienced" player on a big contract with a questionable attitude and inconsistent performance

Unfortunately you do need experience. It's only your opinion he has a questionable attitude and I've not watched Hull enough to judge his consistently and I doubt you have but we were linked with him last summer heavily at a time he was touted for England  and as for the contract he'll be on a free and I doubt he's on a massive wage at Hull so he won't be on anything near what Richards is on. Ultimately though we should only be asking is he an improvement on what we have and the answer is yes.

On 6 March 2016 at 12:24, VillaChris said:

Doubt it, Huddlestone can't get in the Hull team now.

Hull got it right though....keep hold of a decent core in McGregor, Dawson, Curtis Davies, Robertson, Diame, Snodgrass (missed most of season through injury so maybe like Amavi), Abel Hernandez and then added decent lower league players like Clucas and Moses Obujao.

I think he's dropped down the pecking order because he talked about leaving as he hasn't been offered a contract. At 29 he's still got a good few years in him and would easily get into our midfield. We will need a big squad next year as the games come thick and fast. Getting those 2 for nothing enables us to spean whatever money we have on getting goals into the team.