PaulC

I hope Wigan win the FA Cup. I don't particularly like Whelan but I remember them as a non league club and I'm sick the rich boys having everything to themselves. I see the sky cameras are at Old Trafford for the final game of the season. yawn

That would be discriminatory against the Roman Catholic religion. What would be next getting rid of churches!

In your definition was Jimmy an "everyday Catholic"? He can't have thought he was doing much wrong when his church (who claim to speak for his God) kept rewarding him. He was brought up to accept that God is revealed in the words of his priest and those priests were therefore reinforcing his actions. Magic thinking is dangerous. I concur that indoctrination is evil and religion has no place in schools. Indoctrination of children should be recognised as abuse. Except for indoctrination into the Villa. Obviously. That is absolute rubbish. So, you take a young and impressionable mind, eager to learn, and you - a responsible adult, that they look up to and trust - tell them, in all seriousness, that there is an invisible being that made everything, and that he split himself into three, and could do magic things, and he was killed, but came alive again, and he knows everything they are doing and thinking, and if they don't obey his rules they run the risk of being burned in hell, but if they do they will live forever? And you're telling me that's not indoctrination? (Quite apart from being deranged in its own right). If you goto a RC school I would guess you should come from a catholic family then religious education is a key part of a child education. If you don't want your child to be taught religion then don't send him or her to a catholic school. Are you seriously telling me religion should not be taught in a catholic school?

and Benteke is only 22 so has plenty of time for that big career move.

I wish him all the best for the rest of his life. Hope he has a great send off on Saturday.

In your definition was Jimmy an "everyday Catholic"? He can't have thought he was doing much wrong when his church (who claim to speak for his God) kept rewarding him. He was brought up to accept that God is revealed in the words of his priest and those priests were therefore reinforcing his actions. Magic thinking is dangerous. I concur that indoctrination is evil and religion has no place in schools. Indoctrination of children should be recognised as abuse. Except for indoctrination into the Villa. Obviously. That is absolute rubbish.

It's back to seminary for you then Transubstantiation is a core belief required of all Catholics. It isn't optional. The doctrine was laid down in C16, but that was only formalising the long standing Eucharist "Lord's Supper" traditions. Quite specifically, the bread and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ, yet their external appearance does not change. It's this kind of magic thinking which baffles people who don't have the necessary indoctrination. Yes I know what Transubstantiation means but most catholics don't believe they are literally eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ. Its how interpretes it

You could be right there. Sir Matt had to rebuild the side after the munich air disaster. Mind you he did loose an FA Cup final to us. 56 years since we've won the FA Cup that's far too long

What are those innocent Catholics doing about it? I understand that the indoctrination involved in Catholicism is based around guilt, but why does that stop people speaking out against the criminals leading the church? Why hasn't there been a schism? From the outside it's hard to understand why people still identify with a church which has let itself become an embarrassment to "a lot of" it's members. In the days of the internet, why haven't that "embarrassed and angry" part of the church motivated itself and broken away? There are already at least two popes (RC and Coptic). Why not get back to the good old days of lots of popes? Guilt isn't the main thing, in my view. It's true that guilt is one of the tools used in other aspects of indoctrination in Catholic ideas, but I don't see a direct connection between that and collusion in the cover-up of systematic, widespread and endemic sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, which by the way is more prevalent in the Catholic Church than other religions. I assume that's because of the requirement for celibacy and the difficulty of living that requirement, but being forced into a position where breaking it must be done illicitly, secretly. It's more about subjection. Catholics are brought up to believe that the priest is to be obeyed and deferred to in every respect. This is reinforced by things like "confession". People are required to attend sessions where they contemplate their wrongdoing. They wait in a building designed to overawe, in silence, kneeling on a hard surface, in dim light with candles burning - mild sensory deprivation. They then enter a small booth where they have to "confess their sins", explaining their innermost thoughts to the priest through a hatch supposed to prevent identification, and are actively encouraged to reveal the most intimate and sensitive information. Guilt is one of the emotions engineered by this arrangement, but the whole thing is very carefully designed to promote vulnerability, emphasise the primacy of the role of the priest, and reinforce subjugation to the priest. Other rituals like the degree of dressing up, the provision of small boys to service the priest (oo-er, missus) during the dressing ritual and the performance of the mass, support this perception of the priest. In most cases its on a cushioned surface but ok Communion is another thing. I imagine very few people who partake in this consider transubstantiation as anything other than part of the overall package that comes with membership of the club. I don't suppose they struggle with it intellectually and find a rational explanation, not do they consider themselves to be eating flesh when they do communion (so the "cannibals" comment is misplaced). It's just part of what you do. But the act of kneeling in front of the priest, who administers the ritual, who puts the wafer to your mouth and presses the wine goblet to your lips, emphasises that this man mediates your relationship with your God. My understanding of the taking of communion was that it just was a symbolism of Christ's great sacrifice. We never considered ourselves to be flesh eating humans.

a miracle

I fancy a late Bale goal

I do. He's got great technique when using the ball but he's just too fat and slow. Yes exactly my thoughts. Poor mans Hoddle!

Very open game. Does anybody else think Huddlestone is crap?

The problem is the sheltering and protection of serial abusers. I would contest your assertion that there are a disproportionate amount of Catholic paedophiles. I doubt it's statistically different than any other random group of people. The problem is that the church does not ensure these criminals are prosecuted because the church has been allowed to act like they are above the law. Yes I don't disagree with that

I hope they back off Benteke like that

Yes before last nights result I would have wanted a Chelsea win but I want Chelsea to miss out on top 4 so hope Spurs beat them.

lets get back to Jimmy Tarbuck

Yep like spreading AIDS but balancing it with attempted over population at the same time Like looking after orphans but buggering them at the same time Yes I'm sure Mother Theresa was involved in all that. You look at all the good things she did. None of us can even compare to a lady like that. Oh you really don't want to open the MT can of worms, she was bloody evil I'm sure atheists and anti-catholics would have you believe that!

No I'm not if the situation arose I might resort to it Anyway this is pointless. I'm not even a practising catholic. I just think there's good and bad in every religion. I went out with a Mormon and practised that for a while but 3 hours in a Mormon church on sundays was just too much lol

Yep like spreading AIDS but balancing it with attempted over population at the same time Like looking after orphans but buggering them at the same time Yes I'm sure Mother Theresa was involved in all that. You look at all the good things she did. None of us can even compare to a lady like that.

Nobody can be arsed to refute it. All atheists and catholic haters do is focus on the negatives. There's a lot of catholic charities that do great work.

Martinez has turned down opportunities at Liverpool and us. He actually applied for our job again didn't he but we had already decided upon Lambert. Even though Wigan will almost certainly go down, he's done a great job at very small club and I think he will be the man for Everton if Moyes gets the united job.

Even Gabby against QPR

Yes there was a documentary on that. I think the father was initially accused. I don't believe the girls will ever get over something like that. How can people be so evil?

Okay Zatman, Isiah Tossbourne it is! Team now reads: Enckelman Beye Alpay Scimeca Warnock Djemba-Djemba Osbourne Bannan (Capt) De La Cruz Balaban Heskey Manager:Ginger McTurd Happy Now? No I'm still not happy. Its unfair to put Bannan in when his career is still in its infancy. I agree with the other three in midfield. I would put Nigel Callaghan in or maybe Stephen Ireland as he has cost us a substancial amount of money in fee and wages. We have had worse strikers than Heskey. Tony Cascarino, Alun Evans or Marlon Harewood PaulC - I hear your arguement regarding Bannan but I am purely basing his selection on what he has delivered to date & so far his performances have been horrific! As with shares, past performance is no guarantee of future success & vice versa so for his sake & all of our sakes I hope he comes good & then I will happily drop him from this team. (Being dropped is something wee Barry is now used to anyway) can't we agree on Stephen Ireland instead then. After all he's costing us 80k a week. Bannan at least came through our academy and is on a fraction of the wage Ireland is on and at least looks like he's bothered Again Ireland is a good shout. problem is he linked up the play that well with Robbie Keane during his loan spell & started to show his true potential. At least Ireland has had a handful of decent games. Bannan has none! Yes he's provided great value for money and its interesting that Lambert has totally given up on him. However I fully respect your views. I Witness just how good he was with Robinho at Man City. Yes and I thought he was a good signing because of that, and he's been a huge let down. We expected a goal scoring midfield player and he has got 1 goal for us. Its because we know what he can do and he's been such a let down I would have him in that team ahead of Bannan