bickster

Tony's word doesn't count, the british public in general didn't vote for him, they voted for their local candidate. You don't vote for Prime Ministers apparently, it never enters your thinking at all

No, but it gets heavily influenced by the Daily Mail and other such veritable institutions, and at least the parties on the whole know something about why their opinion is how it is. Sorry I don't understand, it gets influenced by someone with a vested interest which is better that it being influenced by someone with a vested interest? Firstly, we didn't have a referendum when we joined the EEC; we joined and then had a referendum about whether we wished to leave shortly after. Secondly, why is this really such a major step? It's nowhere near as important as, for instance, Maastricht or the SEA. I stand corrected (I was under ten at the time and barely remember it) but on an issue such as Maastricht we should have had one imo

Bingo, only been saying for years too

No we had One referendum back in 1975 that asked if we should stay in the Common Market Turnout 64.5% Where do you stop, each time there is a tax amendment do we have a referendum, a change in the law on this or that? What is the point of a government? Carry out the will of the people? or is that a tad old fashioned these days? This has potential sovereignty issues, its slightly different to a change in taxation and use that as an argument against having a referendum, just shows a weakness in the argument imo

Even though that referendum was for something very similar and just as important? The only reason there won't be a referendum is because it would be a NO vote That means the majority of the people don't want it but the government carries on regardless

What have new labour got to do with this? Its a referendum, the peoples voice isn't divided along party lines Anyway, whats all this bollocks about diminishing the power of the elected government? Surely if the referendum goes the way the government campaigns for it does the exact opposite, it strengthens its power on the particular subject It only weakens the government if the governments ideas are rejected (and I suspect you think thats what would happen here) The way I see it is like this, we had a referendum when we went into the EEC in the first place, to take this step is such a major one, the same respect should be given to the will of the people.

What have new labour got to do with this? Its a referendum, the peoples voice isn't divided along party lines Anyway, whats all this bollocks about diminishing the power of the elected government? Surely if the referendum goes the way the government campaigns for it does the exact opposite, it strengthens its power on the particular subject It only weakens the government if the governments ideas are rejected (and I suspect you think thats what would happen here) The way I see it is like this, we had a referendum when we went into the EEC in the first place, to take this step is such a major one, the same respect should be given to the will of the people.

thats a call for more referenda if ever I saw one

Ah, Nayson must be a flimsily made angle-poise lamp

spot on Pete, seemed to be the same game I was viewing (though there could be a reason for that )

Scott's been to see the stiffs again, so here's another of his most excellent match reports

Seriously I don't know it, anyway I thought this was supposed to defeat terrorism? Oh it won't OK then, it must be a good idea anyway

So this way the public pays twice because it won't stop the fraud and we have to pay for the cards too? Right that seems fair :roll:

how would ID cards do that Mart? :? Wait until you get arrested for not carrying one around, then decide Jon. You'll be arrested for the crime of solely not carrying around something that you've paid 300 quid for, I'd only wear 300 quid watch on special occasions And before any body says "it won't be illegal to carry the ID card on you at all times" I'll just say "thin end of the wedge"

Yes we have, its disappeared (and we can't find it) so Gringo asked for permission to start a new one, which was granted

Actually my slightly over-nuked chicken biryani is sat in front of me now and I'm starving I like my food really hot temperature wise, theres a technique to eating it. I aso drink my coffee when its piping hot, often finishing mine before my colleagues have started theirs

One thing that your article doesn't mention John, interesting though it is. When we bought Gareth Barry from Brighton, he was ....a central midfielder. It could be argued that he's been messed around far too often and has just finally been put back in his natural position. I know he first featured for England as a left back and if memory serves me correct he'd never played there at a pro level before he made his debut (which is also rather strange but that was Kevin Keegan for you)

Rooney for me, I've always thought Crouch had more than an element of complete and utter fluke about his game I didn't think Rooney and Owen combined that badly yesterday tbh, when you consider that one of them has been largely unfit for the best part of two years and the other keeps getting injured too How many times have they played together in the last three years?

Another one from B/pool yesterday, not one I'm too fond of but it does the job for the coursework (showing movement with camera fixed on a tripod)

Using Shutter priority mode I set the time to somewhere between 1/60 & 1/30 (I was experimenting for my coursework) - I could look it up in the EXIF but as a general rule for something like that about 1/60 but you need to pan with the camera to keep the subject as clean as possible Blackpool was ferkin miserably wet yesterday, didn't look you up as I thought you'd be doing Family type things on a Sat Thats the thing with those horse carriage taxi things you get all sorts of different rates of movement, wheels feet/legs etc so even though the mainbody of the subject is sharp you get that great sense of movement not only from ther background but the subject itself

Trotsky is trying to create more jobs for the Polls again And for the record Vila every time, I only started watching England again in the last three games because Barry was playing

One from today

The Genius of Photography A new series about to start on BBC4 this month, 6 parts and looks to be good. Will be shown on BBC2 at a later date Not sure of the start date but should be interesting for those of us who enjoy this thread

Catholic Block - Sonic youth