MikeMcKenna

I am sure that like many who have suggested any form of protest in past, I will really get some stick for this but **** it, here goes. Although many have already effectively voted with their feet and no longer go to games, based on previous evidence few regular match goers would support a full blown boycott. This idea will not make Lerner sell but it will allow the fans to show him, the directors and the rest of the football world how disgusted we all are with the state of Aston Villa Football Club - OUR club! As our famous club was founded in 1874, to show our disgust with the current regime, does anyone think the idea of walking out on the 74th minute against Everton on 1st March and follow up with another walkout v Chelsea so the protests will have a greater impact that Lerner will hear loud and clear despite being 3000 miles away! We are now well and truly ****** so I don't think leaving 16 minutes early will make any difference to what happens on the pitch! From the third, fourth, fifth goal onwards today thousands walked out - it would be a much bigger statement if we did it en masse. If sufficient numbers think it is worth a shout, we could promote as widely as possible under the heading "OUT THE DOOR on '74" to see if the idea can gain momentum - however realistically there may not be sufficient time to get the word out for the Everton game and it may be better to leave till a later game. Other than VT I am not a member of any other forums so would need others to help canvas opinion on the other forums, Facebook pages, Twitter etc. Maybe some fans here or elsewhere have contacts in the media? For the record, I have supported Villa for 57 years, was brought up three miles from Villa Park but now live in Bournemouth. I travel up to every home game and currently have two season tickets in the Trinity but over the years have had Season Tickets in every stand. I have experienced all the highs and lows, got the t-shirt etc but this time round it seems much worse as I think we could be destined to spend more than a few years down below, especially if Randy Lerner remains. If enough others would help I would contribute financially to an Advert in the Birmingham Mail. If no one is interested, fair enough, but please save the abuse. It was just a thought on this most depressing of days when we experienced our worst defeat at home in 81 years! It may make no difference but I am sure it will help many fans feel better that we left a mark. Please only use this topic to discuss the protest described in the OP. Posts about what protest you'd like instead do not go in this thread. Trying to take this thread off topic will result in a warning.

I really understand your Dads pain. It feels like the heart of is being cut out of our club. After five seasons of absolute garbage and now facing almost certain relegation many are going to walk away and never come back. To the younger generations AVFC are perpetual losers - no wonder so many of them want to support the 'big 4' or cannot be bothered with football. This will be my third experience of a relegation from the top flight. The first two were terrible, but this time round it feels much, much worse. I will see the season out but I don't know if can stand being treated like a **** any more. Despite the ignominy and humiliation of past relegations, I always felt that we would come back and be great again. That was very true in the 70s and in the late 80s and early 90s we very nearly cracked it. This time it is different, I don't know if we will come back again and it really hit home today. Normally I go to the game with a good friend but he couldn't make it today and my son who makes the occasional game and had a weekend free asked if he could come along. On the way up to VP he was really excited as we both talked about the 'glimmer of hope'. Driving home we hardly spoke for three hours - I didn't know what to say him and was almost ashamed. He has never experienced the glorious Aston Villa that I did at his age and I don't think he ever will. The chances of him "keeping the faith" diminished dramatically today :-(

The "stay away" protest will happen automatically when we are relegated. As regards 'him being forced into a sale', I have no idea whether it would be possible by any means but for any campaign to have an impact it would require massive support across the spectrum of support. Unfortunately as the debates on VT and elsewhere show it would be almost impossible to get the required support. All those who campaigned against Ellis received a lot of vitriol, so few if any would be prepared to stick their heads above the parapet again! I hate to say it but there is **** all we can do :-(

In another thread talking about Lerner, yet another person has stated "he wants out...". But does he? Some believe that it is a black and white situation with Lerner saying: "Give me a £150 (?) million and it's yours...." I have now been told by two separate sources that any buyer may have to pick up some debt in excess of the asking price albeit on certain repayment terms. Add this to Fox's statement a year ago that Lerner "is not a motivated seller' and you have to question how much 'he wants out..." As it stands AVFC has a value on Lerners books. Having converted a tranche of £90 Million debt into equity he has already devalued its book value once but I sincerely believe he is not prepared to write off any more of the debt. The asking price may indeed be £150 million, but the buyer may also be required to pick up another £90 million worth of debt, albeit with long term credit and repayment terms. Don't want to depress everybody, but Lerner doesn't need to sell. He can claim on his books that AVFC is still worth (to him) £XXXXXX plus the outstanding debt. He will only realise an even bigger loss if he sells and obviously doesn't need the cash. So when we are relegated he will be even less motivated to sell and be prepared to wait. I believe he is gambling (again) that we will be back in the Premier League within 1/2 seasons, having generated a higher profile and greater appeal to wealthy suitors who are attracted by the massive income potential of an Premier League club. Imo Fox, Hollis et al have been tasked with running AVFC in the championship at breakeven and eventually selling the club on Lerners terms. Despite Lerners massive investment in AVFC, paying off to his ex-wife etc he is still a billionaire having sold the Browns for $1 billion. To those who say, Lerner wants to sell, and isn't the problem, I would respectfully suggest you are wrong - he know that at the price he wants Villa is unsaleable. In his mind he has been benevolent in the past but now it is all about the money! We are stuck with Lerner for years to come!

Just home after another miserable three + hour trip back from VP. Can it get any worse? I am not going to comment on the result except to say our club is in ruins and that Until Lerner has gone there is no chance it will be rise again from the ashes. But in my opinion there is little hope of him going as I will explain in another post shortly. While the football side of the club is obviously the main focus, I spoke to a couple of people on the staff today. Basically they said the morale is rock bottom at every level 'off the pitch'. Almost all the middle management have either left or been fired since Tom Fox came on board. Many had been with Villa for years, were Villa through and through and despite the mess on the football front worked hard to keep things going commercially with some success. To add insult to injury from what I hear many of them were been treated extremely badly and that the atmosphere currently is toxic with many others fearing for their jobs. This may not effect what happens on the pitch but it is indicative of the state of AVFC behind the scenes and more evidence of the club being rotten to the core! Lerner has basically appointed a hatchet man in Tom Fox and Hollis's brief seems to be more of the same. I don't think they realize that there is a massive backlash coming. I spoke to at least a dozen season ticket holders today in the Trinity and only one said he is definitely renewing - importantly many of these pay well above the average S/Ticket price, buy regular 'extras' and other corporate stuff so AVFC's finances are going to take a further hammering. Many lambasted the directors, for the football but also the way they have treated so many of their loyal employees. Our club bears no resemblance to a "club" anymore. We are now the Aston Villa Football Corporation.

Funnily enough this is the exact conversation I had with an Arsenal friend today. If this happened it would be the biggest game ever.

I am talking about post MON period. Lerner gave MON free reign and he undoubtedly agreed some very generous deals/contracts and arguably paid over the going rate. But from then onwards, with a couple of exceptions, a wage cap was imposed that meant quality signings were almost impossible. Lerner went from one extreme to the other and this led directly to our current demise. The writing was on the wall in the close season when Lambert scoured the lower & foreign leagues signing the likes of Lowton, Bennett, Westwood, Bowery, Ahmadi, Sylla, Holman for the grand total of around £10 million. I doubt any of these were paid significant wages. Yes we signed Benteke but Lambert tried to sign others where we couldn't meet the wage demands. I don't deny that we didn't have the revenue, but that really isn't the point. We needed more experience and quality. It was a a high risk strategy and ultimately a false economy that accellerared the spiral of decline. The so called 'project' of running a club on a shoestring was a Lerner induced pipe dream and unfortunately it is still the case.

It's all a bit like the Gabby argument. He is what we have for now and the talk about who we could have got instead is pointless. If a few years ago I had suggested the likes of Ranieri there would have been plenty of dissenting voices - now he is the dogs bollox! Moyes was a big favorite for several years - now he is viewed as past it. Personally I like Garde, whether we go down or not, if we can keep him IMHO he could make a massive difference eventually - IF he gets the backing - which is far from certain. Why? Mainly gut feeling - he is clearly a deep thinker, in the mound of Mourhino without the personal ego. My sense is that he can build something special rather be a sticking plaster like Allardyce or any of the other journeymen managers. Could be wrong and he may not stay anyway. This time next year, he could be long gone and we could all be moaning about the likes of Nigel Pearson....

Ultimately what does difference does it make to us as fans whether Gabby makes 40,50,60K? As much as we describe AVFC as 'our' club - it is isn't and therefore not our choice what he is paid. It always make me laugh to here fans moaning how much he is paid. If some of the rumours are true the problem in January was that Lerner, Hollis, Fox or whoever the **** is running our club wouldn't pay the wages being demand by some of our targets. If Gabby had left in January they may have given his salary to another new striker but I suspect it still wouldn't have been enough to attract someone better. Not that long ago the likes of Warnock was being 45k - Gabby isn't great but he is more important than the like of Warnock and NZogbia who were all paid similar money. The money paid to Premier League footballers is totally meaningless in the big scheme of things. Not being prepared to pay the going rate is one of the reasons AVFC are in the shit! As I said in a previous post Gabby hasn't been very good for quite a while but he is all we have for now and slagging him off will not make him better - possibly the reverse. His lack of a celebration clearly shows he has taken all the flak to heart. He is never been the brightest button and is more likely to respond to praise. FFS people should stop moaning and support him. If we go down anyway the moaners can spend the summer griping!

Quite shocked the article from the Sun hits so many nails on head! In relatively few words it succinctly sums up what a disaster Lerner has been in the last 6 years. Until three years ago my perception of Lerner was that of a relatively cultured, extremely wealthy but benign absent landlord who had bitten off more than he could chew. Like many I was in some ways sorry for him that everything at Villa had gone tits up. Like others I blamed the managers, the players and the executive but the reality is that he was at the root of everything that went wrong, My perception of him really changed after a conversation I had with a couple of very long term supporters who I have known for several years. They are very well respected and have been big spenders over the years via Corporate etc at VP. They are definitely not the sort of guys that would bullshit. However until now I have always been reticent about telling their story. Anyhow on with the story... I think it was just before Lerner appointed McLeish as manager but can't remember exactly when. The two Villa fans decided to go to a Cleveland Browns game while on holiday in the States, which I think was arranged via Villa corporate hospitality. Whilst at the Stadium, they were invited up to Lerners private suite. After going through multiple checkpoints and being searched twice they eventually arrived at Lerners suite. A flunky announced their arrival but Lerner was stood looking out at the game, f'ing and blinding about something. The two guys stood there like lemons, yet Lerner failed to even acknowledge them and didn't turn round for over ten minutes. When he eventually deigned to speak to the couple of lowly peasant Villa fans, he didn't bother actually greeting them as such or even talk specifically about Villa but immediately went into a massive rant about Levy of Spurs. Something had happened between them; Lerner's line was something along the line Who the **** does Levy think his? He is ******* ****** and is going to ****** learn not to ****** mess with him etc etc His rant when on in a similar vein for some while. The two Villa fans were flabbergasted at the rant but were never actually told why Lerner was so pissed off with Levy or able to ask any questions. Eventually Lerner calmed down, said he hoped that they enjoyed their vacation in the states and the audience was over. I was subsequently told by someone else that much later Lerner and Levy's paths' crossed at a private airport which resulted in a stand up row. So there was obviously bad blood between them long before Spurs attempt to buy Benteke. I can imagine Levy is a nasty bit of work and many Spurs fans don't like him but he knows more about running a football club in his little finger than Lerner ever will - maybe that is why he was so angry? Despite the persona Lerner likes to portray as our concerned and benevolent "Custodian", I think he is totally up himself, paranoid, very weak mentally and a control freak. He was born with a silver spoon is his mouth, has led a charmed life where everything was easy and where he could pass the real work to supposed experts - pity he couldn't even select the right "experts". He was never the super charged businessman that the original PR claimed or ever had a clue about how he was going to run our football club. His PR machine worked like a dream when he first arrived but In reality Lerner was a disaster waiting to happen. The sooner the clearing in the woods goes the sooner AVFC will be on the road back!

First time round he didn't. In fact he was one of the most derided players and only really came good towards the end of his time with us. Given that he had extensive PL experience, I would say overall he was disappointing and eventually Veretout (with very little PL experience) will be seen as a much better player.

I am a big fan and think he has a great future. He gets better every game.

Comparing the points to last season is very misleading. The distance between us and the others is much greater. In 14/15 there was only 7 points difference across the bottom 7 clubs. This season there is 13 points.

At the moment we are not blessed with much choice are we? Gabby has been particularly poor over the last few years but we now need to support him because we have nobody else. I do not see any point in NOT supporting him.

Good game yesterday - definitely better at RB than CB. Not the most skilled going forward, but is deceptiveLY quick and stronger on the ball than Bacuna. However I suspect Hutton will reclaim the position when fit.

Still needs work, but is young. He really worked hard today and will get better.

Like many I have not been his biggest fan in recent years. However today, he seemed to relish leading the line again. As it stands we are not blessed with strikers and it will be interesting to see whether Gabby can rise to the challenge. Our chances of survival are very low but Gabby could become a legend at last after all, if he gets his scoring boots on. I doubt it will happen but.....

Oh dear......

Tinker whether your point is well made or not, you have to always bear in mind that the 'sport" for some on VT (and other forums) is less to do with AVFC/football and more to do with their condescending and baiting nature.

Who gives a **** - he isn't coming!

It is nothing but a sop the fans - a pure PR exercise and for some it appears to have worked. I would not criticise Mervyn King's support, he goes to games and is a undoubtedly loyal fan. Far from a random outburst. If you had read my post I complained about the claim that has a "deep understanding" of the role the club plays in the lives of the fans. His involvement with fans is limited to the rarified atmosphere around his seat in the directors box and the directors dining room. King has been around and close to the directors of the club for years. If he had any influence or contacts worth leveraging he would have done it before now. I love the club like you but also believe that King will do nothing as a director to impact the mess we are in, other than allow Lerner to distant himself from his failed investment. An opinion doesn't require evidence.

"Mervyn is a life-long Villa supporter who has a deep understanding of the Club and the role that it plays in the lives of its many loyal supporters." I do not question Mervyn King's loyalty or support for the club. But frankly his appointment is just another load of bollox. I find the claim that he has a "deep understanding" [...] "that it plays in the lives of it's many loyal supporters" complete tosh and insulting. He knows very little about the lives of vast majority of supporters - if he did he wouldn't join Lerner and the other ******* who run the club in perpetuating this nightmare!! This is exactly the type of appointment I would expect Lerner to make - he hasn't got a ******* clue if he thinks the fans consider Mervyn King to be one of our own. As usual more ****** window dressing! What next Prince William to become an honorary President? Couldn't run a piss up in a brewery! When will this all end!

The last time I posted under a topic of this title was a direct result of one of my family mentioning that I always got predictions of Villa results wrong. So I think to myself if I am so **** at predicting results I should turn it to our advantage. I reckon the next time we will win, will be Man U away on 16th April. :-)

I predict Remi Garde will resign on 14th May, Kevin McDonald will take over as acting manager again and we will beat Arsenal away in our final fixture on 15th May, getting a penalty in the 93rd minute.

Poo, piss, sh*t......